de Hyde, Matthew (c1164-?) – Hyde, Cheshire, England

“An early bearer of the name Hyde in England was a Norman Knight who went into England with William the Conqueror in the invasion of 1066; and was granted lands in Cheshire where the town of Hyde is located, about seven miles east of Manchester. He took his name from the estates granted to him. The family was in possession of this manor in the reign of King John, which had descended from father to son since the Norman conquest. Matthew de Hyde, of Hyde, resided there about the end of the twelfth century and was the father of Sir Robert Hyde, who became Lord of this Manor and also the estates of Shalcross and Fernely in Derbyshire and Halgaten and Denton in Lancashire. He married the heiress of Thomas of Norbury and by this marriage the lordship of Norbury in Derbyshire came to the Hydes in the reign of Henry III.”
Florence Fuller Hyde, The Hyde Family in England and America, 1967, page 4.

 

Many Hyde pedigrees on the Internet start with Matthew de Hyde. These medieval genealogies are largely speculative and unproven. Some have internal inconsistencies*; and some are in conflict** with others.

 

Here is an attempt to trace Robert Hyde (b. c1592 at Denton, Lancashire, Eng.; d. 1684) who married Alice Crompton (b. c1595 Crompton, Lancashire, Eng.) back to Matthew de Hyde. Unlike many Internet pedigrees, this document lists sources:
Ancestors of Robert Hyde (c1592 – 1684)

 

A narrative by Thomas Middleton (published in 1899) describes Hyde Hall, the Hyde family and how the great Earl of Clarendon descends from Matthew de Hyde. The Earl of Clarendon was the father of Ann Hyde, the Queen of King James II of England, and the grandfather of the two succeeding reigning English Queens, Mary and Anne.
Hyde Hall and Hyde Family

 

Wikipedia page on Earl of Clarendon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_of_Clarendon

 

Dan C. Hyde

 

* A pedigree has an internal inconsistency when it has a logic error like a person dying before being born. Also, humans have biological constraints. It is hard to father a child before the age of about 13. Women did marry as early as 12-14. Until the miracles of modern medicine, a woman’s limit to bearing a child was age 56 and usually years before. While a man could father a child when in his 70s. A pedigree saying a man fathered a child at age 6, we would also call internally inconsistent.

 

** Two pedigrees are in conflict if a person’s dates, places, wives, or children are different. One pedigree might have an extra or missing generation compared to another. We as genealogists strive for the truth. To resolve conflicts, we require evidence in the form of primary sources such as deeds, wills, family Bibles and chancery records. Without primary sources, we must reply on secondary sources such as books by credible authors. Any pedigree without sources is suspect.

11 comments

  • Hi, I wondered if anyone could help me?? I am descended from Jesse Hyde 1757 NC and (Deborah Claiborne?)I have been trying to prove, with DNA matches, the origin of our family. I wondered if anyone knows what area the Hydes in NC and MS were from? My DNA matches seem to show an association with the Hydes in CT and MA. This could be coincidence, but I am still unsure. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you, B Starkey

    • Belinda, not sure if anyone else on the board is assisting you. If not, I am most willing to try and respond to your questions.
      I am not the end all expert on DNA, however like you I am using DNA to extend my tree from ~1870 to the 1600’s.
      If you would send me your DNA test results I can compare them to my database of Hyde DNA and see where you match up.
      I believe that you have done some matching, but I would like to compare it to my database. It includes test from multiple sources and grouped.
      You can send the information direct to my email, naned68@comcast.net
      Thanks for posting at our site.

    • You probably go back to the family of Hyde in Norbury Cheshire England..one of them I believe became Governor of North Carolina…I am also a descendent of these Norbury Hydes…you will find Hamnet Hyde a direct ancestor to me and also to Anne Dutchess of York, mother of Queens Anne and Mary

      • I am not sure now the jump from Jonathon Hyde , found in Newton Mass. b.1626. In UK, d. 1711 Newton , Mass., to the Norbury Cheshire family is accurate…the Hyde project cannot prove this …I am however in the ancestry.com, and 23 and me.com DNA data banks and curious if any Hyde of Norbury folks have done a DNA test to resolve this?

        • Andy, hopefully Dan has had a chance to get back to you offline. There’s no information that links Jonathan and Samuel Hyde of MA to the landed Cheshire Hydes.

          • Well I have found a statistically significant number of DNA matches on ancestry.com which suggest my connection through Jonathan Hyde to the Cromptons and Molyneux families does exist..Samuel Hyde married a Crompton but he is NOTmy direct ancestor, so I can eliminate that, and the Molyneux matches are even less easily explained away as no other connections are found with those matches. I am not convinced there is no DNA evidence available.

            • Andy, can you tell us in generalized terms about the matches that you’re referring to? Feel free to email Dan or myself privately if you want to be very specific. Otherwise, in general, is this through autosomal testing, or MtDNA or Y-DNA? How is it measured? Also, we may need to update some of the plugins so if the reply buttons are missing on the display, as they are for me on Andy’s post, please let me know via email. Might just be a phone thing, but still should be visible.

  • Florence Fuller Hyde “The Hyde Family in England and America”, 1967-this account of the Hyde descent is not consistent with that given by Thomas Middleton. The manor of Norbury is not in Derbyshire but in Cheshire.Ann Hyde was the wife of James, Duke of York, brother of Charles II,she died before James ascended the throne, so was never Queen (Middleton never asserts that she was).

    Hyde Hall and corn millwere demolished sometime in the mid-19th-century: they were replaced, first by a gasworks which has now gone to be re-replacedby a caravan park for travelling fairground folk and a sewage processing plant. Only Hyde Hall farm remains. The Industrial Revolution was not kind.

  • Yes thank you I agree and removed the upline folks earlier than Jonathan from my ancestry tree…I did find a Jonathan christened in Yarmouth, living in Medstead of his birth date…listed parents as Willian and Agnes …sent copies to Dan Regards, Andy Robinson

  • Andy, that was a great find – thanks for letting us know! I took a look at that, because Yarmouth was a hotbed of Congregationalism back in the day, *however* that was in the area of what is now Greater Yarmouth, on the eastern coast. The Yarmouth you refer to is on the southern coast and at the time encompassed a chunk of the mainland plus the Isle of Wight. I can’t rule it out. There is one baptismal record with parents William and I think Ann, and this is a different William than the one married to Agnes. What I am having difficulty wrapping my head around is that Agnes had something like eight successful pregnancies from about 1620 onward. That level of success could not be sustained by anyone starting in 1610 or earlier. So if we accept that this could be Jonathan of MA, we have to accept that when Deacon Samuel testified that they were brothers, he might have meant something spiritual rather than genetic, or, in the more likely scenario, that they had different mothers. The biggest problem I have with the listing is that I can’t tell the church or the minister (which in this case means without having to spend money, but since the records for that area don’t officially start until around 1614 this might already be a moot point). Just knowing the minister can make a huge difference.

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